19: Is this a Genuine Purebred Pomeranians?(Part 1)

I have been asked so many times by different people if the pom that they have purchased is purebred Pomeranian or a pomspitz.  I have even been asked by our club the same question.  Accordingly,  this blog.

My only suggestion for anyone who wants a good Pomeranian is that  they should go to a reputable breeder to give them some sort of confidence in what they are really getting.  They should look at the parents of the Pomeranian puppy to get some clue of what the puppy would look like when he/she matures.

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Part 1:  PCCI  Letter

(Details  have been deleted for the protection of privacy of people concerned)

  Dear Mr. Yap,

Attached is the picture of a Pomeranian described below which was sent by the new owner, __________________ from Zamboanga City. The dog is registered as Cream and the former owner is requesting for a change of color to Orange.

 

Name of Dog:                     __________

PCCI Registration No.:         __________

Sex:                                    Male

Date of Birth:                      __________

Sire:                                   __________

Dam:                                  __________

                                 Breeder:                             __________

Based on the picture, her Pomeranian seems to be different from the Pomeranians that we have seen in the dog shows. In this regard we would like to get your opinion as a long time breeder and judge of Pomeranian if this dog is a Pomeranian.

Thank you very much for your opinion and assistance.

Very truly yours,

Jojo Rosales

Manager for Operations

Philippine Canine Club, Inc.

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Part 2:  First Part of My Response

 

Pomeranians originally came from large spitz dogs.  With FCI, they are classified according to size so that a pomeranian or toy spitz should be between 18-22cm from the withers.  Using this definition, many of the pomeranians in the Philippines will fall in the next larger classification...the german spitz.

Pomeranians that you see in dog shows are usually typey pomeranians.  There is another kind of pomeranians which we call broods or pet pomeranians which are much less in breed type in comparison to their show specimen....larger ears, long muzzles, lack of stops, choo choo train bodies, kinky tails, flat or single coats....all these go back to the natural pomeranians vis a vis man made pomeranians for show specimens.  Even in breeding show specimens, you oftentimes have throwbacks to the orginal natural ancestors of the poms...very spitzy looking.

When I was very new in pomeranians, I was of the same thinking that these so called larger poms are really mixed or not purebreeds.  Eventually, as I saw other breeders, specially pet breeders or breeders of exotic colors, you see a lot of suspicious looking poms....specially for the whites, chocolates, parti colors and even for the standard oranges. Even for oranges, you have these larger ones.   They are accepted by AKC...and eventually I have learned to accept them as purebreed....It is not really just the white color that make them suspicious looking but the similarity to their orginal natural ancestors.

You know very well that in the Philippines, there are a lot of cheating in papers.  Lots  of this are in pomeranians......what we call pomspitz are given illegal papers.  The initial reaction is to blow the whistle. But what do you do when you see AKC imports that look similar to Japanese spitz...except many are in a variety of colors?  Sometimes they are in the white color too?  How do you come up with applying rules for consistency for local bred and imports?

So, in short, to answer your question....The attached picture has strong indications of being a pomspitz but when compared to the broods or pet poms, he is less suspicious looking...

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Part 3:  Second Part of My Response(Revised)

 

Below is a comparison of a show pom/ pom brood or pet/  and spitz

 

Show Pom:               Should be small erect ears but sometimes not

Pom Brood/Pet         Some are large, some are not

Spitz                         Large ears

 

Show Pom                Muzzle should be short Wedge-shaped  with a distinct stop                 

Pom Brood/Pet         Usually long muzzles and usually stop not distinct                                              

Spitz                         Long muzzles with no stop

 

Show Pom                Should be short in body(square)/shorter than square \(for AKC)               

Pom Brood/Pet         Usually long back                                                    

Spitz                         Long back

 

Show Pom                Tail should be straight and fall like a plume to back      

Pom Brood/Pet         Some are not long/even kinky                                   

Spitz                         Curled kinky tails

 

Show Pom                Should be up at the pastern like tiptoe/ballet dancer                    

Pom Brood/Pet         Most are not                                                            

Spitz                        Down on the pastern/rabbit feet

 

Show Pom                Coat should be harsh and profuse                              

Pom Brood/Pet         Some are and some are not                                      

Spitz                         Single coat

 

Show Pom                Mostly in standard colors                                          

Pom Brood/Pet         Mostly in all colors                                                    

Spitz                         White

 

Show Pom                Size is 3-7lbs for akc/4-5 1/2lbs for KC                        

Pom Brood/Pet         Usually large and may go beyond 7 lbs                      

Spitz                         Large...should be about 15 lbs or more

 

You will notice that a show poms have specific breed characteristics  and that this  enhances its  breed type. But not all these traits are present in a show Pomeranians.  This is also one of the many reasons why one show Pomeranian will win over another show pomeranian.  The broods/pets have a lot of the required breed type missing.  The spitz has none of these breed type.  Accordingly, with the pomspitz, you have something very much like between  a show pom or pom brood/pet and a Japanese Spitz…where to put the demarcation line is going to be very sticky. 

I would suggest that you take a look at what I am talking about with regards to what a pom brood/pet is. Then, the picture you enclosed would not be too shocking.  I could not say for sure it is a pure pom.  Neither can I say it is not a pomsptiz.

I am sure that there are a lot of cheating not only here in the Philippines but abroad, this happens as well....US, UK, etc.  In the AKC, what I understand is they check on is the integrity of the pedigree.  That, the DNA would do.  I cannot imagine how they can check or prove the purebred-ness…they are going to have a lot of complaints and legal suits.  The best they can do is to move on…

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Part 4:  Requested Response from some US Breeders

My Request to some US Pomeranian Breeders

I have been asked by our kennel club for my opinion regarding the forwarded letter below.  I would like to request your input.

As a backgrounder, here in the Philippines, there is a lot of cheating in pomeranian pedigrees.  We have the white Japanese Spitz(white) which is unpedigreed and this is oftentime mixed with the pomeranians using fake papers.  Since the Japanese Spitz is white, any white pomeranians is suspect of being a mixed breed. According, you see below a request to change the registered color ....white to orange when in fact the color is really a dirty white...more of cream.  I suspect the request is really to camouflouge the suspicious purebreedness of the pomeranian because if it is orange the suspicion becomes more remote.

Because of the said rampant practice but dishonest breeders, I am very tempted to just say that this dog is not a purebreed pomeranian.  Of course when compared to show poms, there is a big difference.  However, after my exposure to the pets and the broods  or the companion poms in USA and UK, I understand the similarity to the original pom ancestors of the breed....the throwbacks, etc.  I would give way to inputs other pomeranian breeders who have a wide exposure to the larger broods and even exotics.

Response of Sharon Hanson(Janshar).

….It may very well be a pomeranian..as you know not all people breed nice poms. They breed for puppies and they don't know any better.  I could not positivley say it was not purebred…...

Response of Barbara Raymond(Showins)

…I have seen some poms that look like this.  It looks very much like the old style poms.  If this one had a full coat you might not be drawn so much to the ears and nose.  But she thinks it does look like the older style poms. If you would like to call her she can give you some websites that you can go to that still have some poms that have this bigger ear, bigger muzzle look with little coat.  This pom appears to be of the parti gene which makes her believe all the more that it is a pom.  In fact, a man was just here with his older pom and it looked so much like this one in the pictures you sent. And she knows this this guys is a pure bred pom.  If he ever comes back out with his pom I will take a picture and send it to you so you can see the resemblance…

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